Our Broken Government, including Federal Agencies

[JME]

Congessman John Dingell (D) Michigan who is one of our strongest advocates for truth and justice in this Camp Lejeune water contamination situation was also an outspoken critic of the de-regulation of our investment banks. The below article comes from a 1991 edition of the New York Times concerning how we got into this latest debacle. This article proves that Mr. Dingell is a wise and honest man! Any lessening of regulations, Mr. Dingell stated, and I quote " would usher in a golden age of thievery." Look at where our financial markets are today! You be your own judge, I personally am glad to have him on our side! Jerry Ensminger

September 18, 1991

Bank Barrier Resists Foes; Glass-Steagall Walls May Just Be Replaced
By LESLIE WAYNE,

For nearly a decade, bankers have trooped to Congress and pressed for repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which bars banks from underwriting securities. And over the same period, banks and Wall Street firms have devised clever ways to get around this barrier, so that it is often difficult to tell one from the other.

Now, as Congress considers broad banking industry changes to reflect this new situation, the Glass-Steagall law that initially seemed vulnerable to repeal is beginning to display a remarkable staying power.

Much of its resilience reflects a combination of fears among many members of Congress over tinkering with existing regulations while attention is focused on scandals involving Salomon Brothers and the Bank of Credit and Commerce International; the power of one Congressman, John D. Dingell, a Michigan Democrat who opposes repeal, and a banking industry that appears divided between large and small banks over the desirable degree of regulatory changes.

The upshot is that in the guise of "reform," those who would keep the Glass-Steagall barriers have agreed to lift the law, but only with so many protective "firewalls" on banks that both bankers and the Bush Administration, which has pushed for its repeal, are beginning to wonder whether they might be better off with no legislation at all.

"The way things seem to be coming out," said Samuel J. Baptista, president of the Financial Services Council, a lobbying group of banks and securities firms that favor banking regulatory changes, it looks as if "they are a step back in time, and Congress may be producing a package that I think could be worse than no bill at all."

There are now two versions of the banking overhaul package -- one in the House and one in the Senate. Attention is currently focused on the House side, where Mr. Dingell's Energy and Commerce Committee takes up the measure next week.

Recent actions in an Energy and Commerce subcommittee highlight the problem faced by the banking industry. The subcommittee, which is reviewing the House version of the legislation, agreed this week to the repeal of Glass-Steagall, but imposed a firewall that one leading bank lobbyist called "most egregious" and was seen as a back-door way of undercutting any repeal.

The firewall in question would prevent the securities affiliate of a bank from lending, for a three-month period, to any client whose securities it had underwritten, unless the client had a line of credit in place at least 60 days before the underwriting.

This means that except for longstanding clients, a bank would have to choose between underwriting the securities of a client or lending it money. That is similar to existing restrictions, which banks say put them at a competitive disadvantage to international banks and Wall Street firms.

Bankers contend that if this firewall is enacted, many banks, particularly large ones, will be in a worse position than they are in today. In 1988, the Federal Reserve system began to encroach on the Glass-Steagall law with interpretations that permitted some large banks to enter the securities business.

Two banks, the Morgan Guaranty Trust Company and Bankers Trust, have securities affiliates that underwrite debt and equity offerings just like investment banks. And 17 other domestic banks -- along with 11 foreign banks doing business in the United States -- are permitted to engage in such lines of business as corporate and municipal debt underwritings, the issuance of commercial paper, the creation of asset-backed securities and arrangements of private placements.

As a result, banks have made significant inroads into some traditional Wall Street businesses. In fact, Morgan Guaranty's securities affiliate, with more than 800 employees, is the nation's 15th-largest securities firm, and Citibank's ranks 16th.

Because of these inroads, proponents of change feel that Congress could roll back the clock as it tinkers with Glass-Steagall. Sounding the alarm, Treasury Under Secretary Robert R. Glauber called reporters to his office this week to say the proposed firewalls would be an "anticompetitive rollback" of powers currently exercised by banks. "I'd rather have no Glass-Steagall repeal than bad Glass-Steagall repeal," Mr. Glauber said.

But whether that plays in Congress is another matter. At the Energy and Commerce subcommittee meeting this week, one Representative after another expressed fears that eroding the regulatory protections could bring about another scandal on the order of Salomon Brothers or B.C.C.I.

For instance, Representative Edward J. Markey, the Massachusetts Democrat who heads the subcommittee, lashed out against any changes, saying, "As we consider this legislation, we need to heed the lessons not merely of decades ago, or even years ago, but those of only a few days ago."

Mr. Dingell, whose Energy and Commerce Committee will review the issue next week, was even blunter. He protested that any lessening of regulations would usher in a "golden age of thievery."

Dingell in the Eye of the Storm

Mr. Dingell is a key figure in the struggle. The son of one of the drafters of the Glass-Steagall measure, he has thwarted change every time it has come up in Congress. He is continuing his campaign now.

"Mr. Dingell is a very powerful committee chairman," said Bert Ely, a banking industry consultant. "He's been around a long time, and he knows how to work the system. He intimidates members of the House, and he's staked out a strong position. So it's a real fight, and we're seeing some heavy-duty arm-wrestling going on."

But more than Mr. Dingell, proponents of change have problems among themselves. Small banks, which usually maintain close ties to their local Congressmen, are opposing any change that will make big banks more powerful. Wall Street Is Wavering

And Mr. Baptista's group, which advocates repeal of Glass-Steagall, is finding that his securities firm members -- including Merrill Lynch, American Express and Dean Witter -- have begun to waver in their support of this position. They had agreed to support it in exchange for Congress's giving them permission to own banks.

But Mr. Dingell and his followers succeeded in knocking out in the subcommittee provisions of the larger package that would have permitted corporations to own banks. With no quid pro quo, securities firms that might have lent a helping hand in lobbying are less inclined to do so.

Still, it is difficult to handicap the outcome, considering the numerous hurdles remaining. After consideration by Mr. Dingell's committee, the measure goes to the House Rules Committee and then to the House floor. A final chance for alterations will come in a conference committee.

[HITMAN]

I dont know about any of that which was posted over the last 2 pages;
I do know that watching interviews and news that this is the same old same.
You had clinton out calling obama the devil and then when she lost the race she sided with him.
that happens every election time!
they call each other out, they call each other names, they say bad things about one another and then go behind the scenes and drink a beer together.

I had seen the interveiw with senator obama on tv;
I fell off the chair!
he said "he studied in the middle east for years while he was studying the koran"

Did he stutter?
NO.

I seen the ad that the middle east is giving him money for the campaign, they have supported him since his birth and have guided him to this point.

what will happen if this is all true and he actually is backed by the middle eastern countries?
will he declare martial law, and take by force all the guns off people so his mentors can sweep in and sweep up the country?

This man to many is to slick, he knows the questions before they are asked and he knows the exact answers that the people want to hear.

I also heard and seen some scuttlebut on others running for president, like independents, green party, etc.
so far they havent shown their faces yet!??

Mcain; I dont see him as a good president;
he is too old and has to many problems on his plate already.
I believe if he gets in that there will be someone else running the show and all he would be is a cover page.

[Vette]

It is obvious from the polls and bumper stickers around my town that finally people are not listening to some of the nonsence spewing news networks that are so obviously biased, wasting air time of foolish nonsence. That also includes some radio talk shows. Barrack Obama's step-father was from Indoneshia. Therefore, as a elementary aged child, he spent two years in a Muslim school and two years in a Catholic school. It's always the Muslim school that is the topic of conversation. This is how some of the press attempt to keep us from focusing on the real issues facing this country. Americans, please read for yourselves. There are too many web sites out there that only print "THE TRUTH", such as Motherjones.com, truthdig.com, politico.com and slate.com. We all know what will happen to our cause if John McCain is elected. In addition to the water contamination, PLEASE stop voting against your own self interest. JME, it is so refreshing reading your posts on this upcoming election. You are an informed person. I pray that the majority of Americans will be informed before this most important election.

[JME]

Thanks Vette! Now Hitman, Senator Obama has stated that he has read the Koran, so have I. If you are truly going to understand your enemy and what motivates them, you have to learn their ways and tactics. I want to ask you, have you ever watched the movie "Patton?" If you have, there is one scene in the movie where Patton's aid came in to wake him because there was new intelligence that Rommel was on the move. Did you happen to see the book that was lying on Patton's chest when he was awakened? It was titled "Infantry in the Attack" by Erwin Rommel. Later in the movie after Patton wins this initial battle he tells Rommel "You magnificent Bastard, I read your book!" Jerry Ensminger

[HITMAN]

[quote="JME"]Thanks Vette! Now, Hitman Senator Obama has stated that he has read the Koran, so have I. If you are truly going to understand your enemy and what motivates them, you have to learn their ways and tactics. I want to ask you, have you ever watched the movie "Patton?" If you have, there is one scene in the movie where Patton's aid came in to wake him because there was new intelligence that Rommel was on the move. Did you happen to see the book that was lying on Patton's chest when he was awakened? It was titled "Infantry in the Attack" by Erwin Rommel. Later in the movie after Patton wins this initial battle he tells Rommel "You magnificent Bastard, I read your book!" Jerry Ensminger[/quote]


So what are you saying? He read and studied this book so he could go against these people (when he grows up)?
I watched as he denied (every time) saying he did not study that book;
I watched as he denied (every time) saying he never spent any time in any schools other than catholic here in the states;
I watched as he said my grandmother raised me;
then his mother;
then his mother and grandmother;
I watched as it unfolded that his real father met his mother at school in hawaii, then took both of them over to the middle east, (he was born to an American on American soil so he was an American by birth)
Then his father took them over there to raise him as a follower.
Then she (his mother) remarried or ran off with another man and came home to America.

Doesnt that seem a little strange?

Women from that culture do not do that, and if they try they are severely punished or killed.

Then I saw the video of how the leaders of the middleeast have nurtured obama, trained him, taught him, and then placed him here in the states and have been guiding him through his life so he could become the leader and they would have a ruler inside the great USA. How they financed everything he did, and how he is spewing the typical political ramblings that everyone wants to hear so he could get into the office.

just by that videos existance and the fact it was made should have put the US secret service and the CIA on alert, but it did not.
How is it that a poor boy went to a catholic school, or who paid for the college, who paid for the political campaigns, or all the other things.


One must gather all the intel and then make an educated guess on any issue!

Im not saying this is all true, or that it never happened;
The fact is that its there.

I too know a lot of people (educated or not ) who read many books;
Like hitlers diaries, ceasar, the roman empire, etc.
A book means nothing; reading or studying a book means a few things,
your interested in history, your doing a report, a thesus, just curious, a gift, etc.

My point is he claimed he never was in the middle east or studied the book then turned around and just sperted it out that he did.

was it a lie? a mistake? was he afraid of the outcome?
who knows

One thing I do know is that if he lied he will continue to lie;
If he is hiding things he will continue to do so.
That is something no one needs in the presidents office or any other elected office.

speaking of patton; and war;
It is an old trick to infiltrate thine enemy and strike from within.
that is something one should keep in mind.
a well planned military with limited abilities has to be creative;
the terrorists have struck our soil, and we went to war with the terrorists,
we the people think that the war is in the middle east and our attention is put there by the press and the political leaders,
did they come back?
or was it to divert our attention?

Political elections are like criminal trials; as you must gather as much information as possible, piece it all together, sift through all the facts and the lies, and then make an educated decision.

Obama nor mccain have come out on the top of any discussion or with any point, both of them are career politicians with the same agenda.
they both play the game the same, they both have backers, and they both have nothing to lose. the presidents seat is just something to add to thier resume's.

I had emailed both of them and thier staff about the lejeune issue;
neither one or any of thier staff had a reply. At least hilary clinton responded and said it wasnt on her agenda to do anything with it.

Each individual is entitled to his/her own opinion and can make thier own decision on this election.

I had just emailed a senator from pa. about the bailout;
I said it was a bad idea and that all that was being accomplished was giving more money to the greedy bankers in which they would give it back to the elected officials they support. Put it on a ballot for the people to decide.
that money can go towards other things needed more desperately like the camp lejeune toxic poisoned families;
road work;
training more people for the dept. of transportation;
the military families;
etc.


again; will it happen? will they listen?
probably not!
every system and agency in this government is broken and does not function unless it benefits those in office. That is the sad reality;
what we as a nation need to do; we the people; we need to stand united and fire and jail every politician for treason. They have one thing on thier minds (greed and power) NOT the people.

[JME]

Hitman,
You asked me, what was I saying? My explanation was pretty clear as to what I was saying. What is it that you are saying? You cite all of these "video's" that you have been watching but you don't source them in your postings. I don't know about you, but I am extremely cautious about a lot of the "crap" that is sent around concerning political candidates. The last eight years of the Bush administration has taught me to be extremely wary of "B.S.!" I would recommend that if you are going to quote issues that you want everyone else to believe as fact, I must ask you to include your proof! Jerry Ensminger

[Mpartain]

Hitman,

I am from a family who served this country for three consecutive generations. My grandfather was an officer in the Marine Corps, my father a Naval Academy graduate (like John McCain) and I myself served briefly in the Navy (I was discharged due to a medical problem I was born with from Camp Lejeune). As most military families, we are Republicans and I have been so all my life. I believe in God, country and honor.

When I first learned about Camp Lejeune last year, I contacted my local Representative from where I am from and my Senator. Both men are Republican and to date I have never received a reply from Senator Martinez and Mr. Putnam’s office has all but blown me off. Thankfully, I had just relocated to Tallahassee and I had access to yet another Representative, Allen Boyd. He is a Democrat and I wrote to his office asking for help. Much to my surprise, they extended a helping hand and are helping us in this fight. I also corresponded with Senator Nelson’s office and they have also expressed and willingness to help. One of his staff members was very helpful in getting an issue with the Marine Corps website corrected.

Last February I voted for John McCain in the Florida Primary. Then I came across the GAO report in my research into the Camp Lejeune issue. It was signed by John McCain despite numerous errors, omissions and down right lies. These issues were pointed out to McCain and his staff over a 2 year period by Tom, Gloria, and Denita among others.

His signature on this report is a betrayal of the very promise to the veterans he made tonight during the debate. Character is defined by what you do when no one is looking. Well, Mr. McCain was warned and signed this report with all its flaws anyways because Camp Lejeune was not a “hot” issue at that time. Thankfully, John Dingell (Democrat, Michigan) scheduled the first Congressional Hearing into Camp Lejeune last year.

One thing that I nor anyone can do is fight preconceptions. My political party has achieved mastery of the skill of playing up to want we want to believe. We want tax cuts and they give us tax cuts but shift the short falls in tax revenue to a massive government debt we may not be able to pay, we want a strong defense against terrorism, but we invade a country that was not involved in the attack against us, we pay for this war through yet more deficit spending, and finally they ask our loyalty as veterans and yet we are left out in the cold when we need help the most. The only hearing ever held on Capital Hill about Camp Lejeune was scheduled last year by a Democrat (John Dingell) after the Republicans lost control of the House. Before this hearing, the Republican solution to Camp Lejeune was to attach a provision in a defense appropriations bill for a Government Accountability Office report on Camp Lejeune. The sole intention of this report was to kill the Camp Lejeune issue once and for all. McCain signed it and thankfully, it did not work.

The question you need to ask yourself is who is really helping us in this fight?

Mike Partain

[usdbymc]

provo mike thank you[b][/b]

[HITMAN]

I dont know any one on here as a personal friend, I cant say that they are a friend or enemy or if they have personal agendas or are just hard headed maybe even a "plant" to agitate, or to infiltrate and mold things to thier own agenda.
from one view I do know that we as Americans have a right and a responsibility to ensure the future of our children,
we have rights to freedom of speach, press, and to voice our opinion when ever, where ever we will.
It is on every one of us to gather our information and process it through our heads, research everything, and then make an educated decision.

WHY? is it on person can state something and it is set in stone!
while demanding proof or evidence from someone else.

May it be that everyone is not equal? that someone is a liar?
well that may be, but again it must be proven that the persons word is worthless.

Did someone prove my namesake or my opinions to be worthless and lies? NO.

I need not prove or provide anything to anyone; this is not a court of law!

However; I will entertain that thought and say; since it was said I will provide my opinion my way, If you are so in love with, or so hypnotised by someone and cannot see clearly enough to; or are to hard headed to;
seek out the "proof" or "evidence" then that would be your loss.
The videos and interviews are out there on the net; most of them can be found at you tube; (now before It gets to "thats a lot of bs")
you tube does post videos by nbc, abc, cbs, and a lot of certified press agencies. they post it for anyone to research it.
Just as I posted before about "the saja bill"; I did hit that in the search engine, and the ONLY response I got was what I posted. there were NO other acronyms to be found. giving the fact that obama is muslim I found it to be pretty acurate.

So I gave everyone a clue, search for these things in your browser, on you tube, the major news networks or anywhere you wish.


To know me and where I stand is far beyond anyone on a website can imagine; I am sick, my four kids are sick, and that tears me up to no end.
The thought of my grandkids or future children being sick really tears me up. If I could I would go back down to lejeune and bottle that water up and force all these politicians to drink it so they get what they dished out.
But I know what would happen, they would get medical help and va benefits, and ssi and all the help needed, and those of us who proudly volunteered to serve will get NOTHING.

I had been trying to establish a website on my own; not soley for this issue but for many issues. I wrote to andrea and asked her to take a look at it to see if it was appropriate and ok. and for her to decide if it could be something to share with everyone on this site. She never got back to me and never put it up on here. However; it would give a pretty good idea of who I am and what my agenda is. I am very much into fighting "city hall" and every branch of the government because they all lie to get in and then they all turn around and get greedy for themselves, instead of helping the people.
so if anyone is interested you may go see who I am at;
http://theliptokreport.books.officelive.com

Again this is a new site and under construction; I am not a web genious so there is work to be done on it. However it will give you an idea of what I face every day with political assaination, corruption, abuse of power, and if I dare communism right here in the heart land.

I will not let it be, I will not turn the other way, I will not let it go, I will not be silenced or ignored for this Is my land, my country, my future, my childrens future and I will fight to make every thing right.
If I do not; then I will best be dead because the future of mankind can not rest on the wicked and greedy the followers of evil; there must be balance and there must be a source of light.

This issue has brought me many pains, and many unanswered questions and a real reality check that for so long a government could hide and conceal the truth and to poison its own people with out any fear of justice.
other leaders and countries have fallen to war crimes councels and the very same atrosities to its people. But the USA seems to be imune from that same justice. That is why I have gone on another level and have spoken to other countries and yes even 3rd world coutries who hate us but now have more amunition. This I hope will come back in a favorable way; that the government tries to fix the problems rather than hide them.

The USA medical industry is controlled by the government and fda; while there is cures and treatments being done successfully overseas this country is stuck on the greedy pharmeceutical company's and government. Other countries had service men and civilians as guests at lejeune, and they were poisoned as we were; however; they are getting help, they are being treated. far infra red was used here in the states back in the 60's -70's for toxic lead poisoning (successfully) then thegovernemnt banned its use. why? because it worked and the outcome was that the dr's and pharmeceutical companies and government didnt make any money. It is all about greed!

I will never be lead into any belief; strongarmed into any agenda; told I have to; I have (whats left of) my brain and I will use it to do whatever I can for any issue. I as a human being and a GOD fearing person will do my best to help others, give whatever I can to aide anyone in need.
If that makes my opinion offensive or a lie without posting "proof" or "evidence" then ther is something wrong.

There is one issue here.
Only one.
It is not political as who will help, who might help, who claims they will help,
If any politician was worth thier job this issue would have been settled within 24 hours after it was discovered. very simple.

This issue is about; "we the people" "we the victims of camp lejuene"
keep that in mind!

getting off that subject will no doubt cause delay in the outcome.
fighting about who is right and who is wrong who did what and what is posted and what is not will certainly put a damper on the outcome.
there are no doubt people watching this site and every other site about this issue, and putting doubt or trouble in the mix will cause only one conclusion;

Post what you know, if you have evidence then post it "if you know how"
let each individual research it and find thier own trueths or discrepencies.
without doing the research and just being pushy or bullheaded is defeating the entire cause.

[Andrea Byron]

John,
I wanted to apologize for not getting back with you yet on your site. I did just take a look at it and I like what you've done with it. You are more than welcome to post any site on the discussion board that you think may benefit others. Again, I do apologize for not getting back with you on your email to me beforehand.

Andrea

[JME]

Are you hoping for a favorable outcome to the Camp Lejeune water contamination issue? Then you had better hope that John McCain doesn't win this election.........Jerry Ensminger

P.S; Vote!!!

[Mpartain]

I spent five years in the classroom as a history teacher for gifted kids in the International Baccalaureate program. During that time I often spoke about our obligations as human beings and Americans to shape the world where we lived into a better place. I have always been fascinated by our kind’s ability to use our minds to create a better world. My school year would always begin with the parable of the cave by Plato and end with a rendition of what we have accomplished in the short space of the past 100 years.

As I listened to President elect Obama’s victory speech I was pleasantly surprised to hear these same ideas related in his story about the elderly woman who has lived for the past one hundred and eight years and is a living witness to all the changes good and bad that we have undergone in this country. Through the worst our country has had to offer, we have once again found greatness. I believe that this administration brings the promise and hope of a new dawn.

I believe.

I do not know what will ultimately happen in our fight, but I do believe that we now are one huge step closer to achieving an even playing field and in one way or another, our story will be told, we will be heard and God willing we will have our justice!

Mike Partain

[JME]

In the 1980's, the U. S. Congress created the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) to perform human health and environmental risk assessments at National Priority Listed (NPL) (aka: "Super Fund") contamination sites in the United States. The ATSDR was also tasked with creating toxilogical profiles for the chemicals found at these sites and else where in our environment and to create a registry for human exposures to chemicals at these NPL sites.

Camp Lejeune was officially placed on the NPL in 1989 which automatically required an investigation/study by the ATSDR as to whether or not humans were exposed to the chemicals at this site. They were also tasked with assessing the health risks associated with those exposures. The report of the ATSDR's investigations/studies at these NPL sites are referred to as Public Health Assessments (PHA's). This posting will cover in detail the PHA that the ATSDR published in August 1997 for Marine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune, N. C. (MCB, CLNC).

The ATSDR first appeared at the Camp Lejeune NPL site in 1991 to execute its Congressionally mandated mission. From the beginning, it is quite apparent that the United States Marine Corps/Department of the Navy representatives at CLNC, Naval Facilities Engineering Command, Norfolk, Va. (NAVFACENGCOM), and the Navy Environmental Health Center (NEHC) did not appreciate the ATSDR looking around their "back yard!" There are repeated requests by ATSDR for information/data concerning the contamination sites/exposures at CLNC. There are letters complaining that the points of contact at CLNC were "uncooperative" in providing the data which they needed and that when they did provide data, there was no documentation to support it! From looking at these historical documents, one can ascertain that the USMC/DoN were engaged in a campaign to stall, delay, confuse, and intimidate the staff from the ATSDR. Evidently, these tactics had the desired effect. I have reviewed most of the different draft PHA's which the ATSDR had written for MCB, CLNC and the "evolution" of the language the ATSDR used in describing the contamination at CLNC is testimony in itself that the USMC/DoN's stategy was working. When the final PHA was issued in August of 1997, it was full of inaccuracies and assumptions which favored most of what the USMC/DoN wanted to see, no/very little impact on human health. I must at this point give the ATSDR some credit for the firm stance they took on fetal exposures, however, the exposures to the majority of people, Marines, Sailors, their dependents, and the civilian employees had been effectively minimized to give these populations a false sense of security. In other words, no harm would come to them because of their exposures to Volatile Organic Chemicals (VOC's) in Camp Lejeune's drinking water.

Note: It has also been determined that USMC/DoN provided the ATSDR with erroneous water system data (multiple times) which is still reflected in this document.

Let's take a look at the VOC Exposure Estimates in Appendix E-1 of the August 1997 PHA for Camp Lejeune. There are several factors which the ATSDR used in these estimates which are not only questionable today, they were questionable when this document was initially written!

1.) Why was the exposure factor based on 4 out of 7 days per week? Where in the hell did these people think we went for the other 3 days of the week?

2.) The daily ingestion rate was based on 2 litres per person per day? California's current ingestion rate for people living with contaminated water is 7 plus litres per day. 2 litres per day? Did these people think we were rats? Marines had physical training (PT) at least 3 times per week, many units had PT every morning, after PT everyone showered prior to going to the messhall for the morning meal. Not to mention the fact that most of the work spaces aboard Camp Lejeune during that period of time were not air conditioned. During the Spring, Summer, and early Fall months we drank water constantly just to keep hydrated and then everyone would require another shower after normal working hours. 2 litres per day? Please!!!

3.) Once you skew these first 2 catagories, it greatly reduces the estimated dose which greatly reduces the cancer slope factor which in turn ultimately reduces the adult cancer risks!

Now, I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but it most certainly appears to me that someone was purposely manipulating numbers which would reduce the risk!

It is also a known fact that the ATSDR personnel who were working on the CLNC, PHA were billeted and fed at the Camp Lejeune officers club during each and every visit they made to CLNC. Is this how an agency tasked with investigating/studying exposures at NPL sites should conduct itself? Does the ATSDR accept hotel, food, drink, and transportation accommodations from private industry NPL sites? I can answer that question, hell no! The ATSDR compromised their independence and impartiality right from the beginning at Camp Lejeune. They were provided VIP quarters at the officer's club, they were provided transportation from the USMC, and they were socializing with representatives of the polluter over meals and drinks at the "O" club in the evenings. The representatives of the ATSDR were the Mules and the USMC/DoN representatives were giving them the old "carrot/stick" treatment!

Take a look at Table 3. Potential Health Effects for VOC Exposures in the CLNC, PHA. You will note that without exception the adult cancer risk is a definitive "No", not "unlikely", not "unknown", it is "No!" I then want you to read the text on the page which follows Table 3, titled "Cancerous Effects", there are numerous statements in their own document that counter their conclusions in their Table. For example;

1.) "not enough scientific information on humans is available to rule out the possibility of cancerous health effects from low dose exposure to VOC's." WHAT???!!! Table 3 said "No" to cancerous effects in adult exposures!

2. "A few epidemiologic studies have suggested that exposure to VOC's may be associated with leukemia, non-hodgkins lymphoma, and bladder and kidney cancer (39, 40, 41, 42). The exposure doses in these studies were similar to or slightly higher than what was estimated at Camp Lejeune." Why does Table 3 say "No"???!!!

3.) "Because the results of the epidemiologic studies suggest a possibility of cancer from exposure to VOC's at low doses, more studies are needed to adequately address the issue of human cancer associated with low-dose VOC exposure." The ATSDR then goes on to say in their conclusions that no further studies are required for adults exposed at Camp Lejeune!!! Is it just me or do you also feel like we are in the "Twilight Zone?"

I have included Table 3 and the subsequent paragraphs from the PHA for all to see. I found it rather interesting that the Appendices for this document are not included with the PHA on the ATSDR's web-site. If anyone would want to see these appendices on how the ATSDR came up with their conclusions, you must request a "hard copy" from them! How convenient! Here is the link to Appendix E-1 VOC Exposure Estimates .
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Table 3. Potential Health Effects for VOC Exposures Water System Exposed Population Exposure Time Frame Exposure Activity Drinking Water Contaminant Estimated Exposure Dose
(mg/kg/day) Potential Health Effects
Chemical Maximum Concentration (ppb) Noncancer Effects Cancer Risk Increase†
Hadnot Point Base residents
and workers
(Adults, children, and fetuses) Past
known
1982­-1985,
unknown
1940s­-1982 People in the Hospital Point housing complex and other buildings supplied by the Hadnot Point Drinking Water System ingesting, inhaling, and having dermal contact with contaminated drinking water TCE 1400 Adult 1.7E-03 Not Likely, No
Child 3.7E-03 Unknown Unknown
DCE 407 Adult 4.9E-04 Not Likely, No
Child 1.1E-03 Not Likely Unknown
Methylene Chloride 54 Adult 6.6E-05 Not Likely, No
Child 1.4E-04 Not Likely Unknown
Vinyl Chloride 3 J Adult 3.6E-06 Not Likely, No
Child 8.1E-06 Not Likely Unknown
Tarawa Terrace Base residents (Adults, children, and fetuses) Past
known 1982­1985,
unknown 1954­1982 People in the Tarawa Terrace housing complexes ingesting, inhaling, and having dermal contact with contaminated drinking water supplied by Tarawa Terrace Drinking Water System TCE 8 Adult 9.8E-06 Not Likely, No
Child 2.2E-05 Not Likely Unknown
DCE 12 Adult 1.5E-05 Not Likely, No
Child 3.2E-05 Not Likely Unknown
PCE 215 Adult 2.6E-04 Not Likely, No
Child 5.8E-04 Unknown Unknown
Holcomb Blvd Base residents and workers
(Adults, children, and fetuses) Past
known January 27 ­February 7, 1985 People in the Paradise Point, Watkins Village, Berkeley Manor, Midway Park housing complexes, and other buildings supplied by the Holcomb Boulevard Drinking Water System ingesting, inhaling, and having dermal contact with contaminated drinking water TCE 1,148 Adult 3.3E-05 Not Likely, No
Child 7.2E-05 Unknown Not Likely
DCE 407 Adult 1.2E-05 Not Likely, No
Child 2.5E-05 Not Likely Not Likely


† - Increased cancer risk is based on > 5.5 x 10-5.
J - Estimated value
NOTE: Dose calculations and cancer risk estimates are included in Appendix F-2.
The Probable Health Effects does NOT include those for fetuses, which would be unknown.

Cancerous Effects

Typically, ATSDR uses human epidemiologic and occupational studies when evaluating the likelihood of cancerous effects or cancer risk. However, too few epidemiologic studies have been carried out on low-level exposure to VOCs to make sound cancer estimates. Therefore, we decided to base our assessment of cancer risk from exposure to VOCs at MCB Camp Lejeune on data from animal studies. The International Agency for Research in Cancer (IARC) classifies TCE and PCE as "probably carcinogenic to humans" based on "sufficient" evidence of carcinogenicity in animals and "limited" evidence in humans (38). The animal studies evaluated the cancer effects from known exposure to VOCs. On the basis of these animal studies, mathematical formulas were derived using factors to convert animal data into values relevant to humans.

Using cancer risk estimates, ATSDR determined that cancerous health effects are unlikely in adults who were exposed to VOCs in drinking water at MCB Camp Lejeune (Appendix E-1). Although cancer is not expected to occur, not enough scientific information on humans is available to rule out the possibility of cancerous health effects from low-dose exposure to VOCs. A few epidemiologic studies have suggested that exposure to VOCs may be associated with leukemia, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, and bladder and kidney cancer (39, 40, 41, 42). The exposure doses in these studies were similar to or slightly higher than what was estimated for people at MCB Camp Lejeune. However, there are too few studies to see any definite pattern of cancers related to VOC exposure. In addition, these studies are further limited methodologically because of the difficulty of verifying and quantifying people's exposure to VOCs. Because the results of the epidemiologic studies suggest a possibility of cancer from exposure to VOCs at low doses, more studies are needed to adequately address the issue of human cancer associated with low-dose VOC exposure.

Health Outcome Data

Cancer Data
At this time, ATSDR is not planning a follow-up cancer statistics evaluation of adults at MCB Camp Lejeune for the following reasons. A simple review of cancer statistics from the North Carolina cancer registry would not be useful because cancer registries contain cancer cases diagnosed each month for a specific county. When exposures occur, generally all residents of the county are not equally affected. Instead, the people exposed would be a smaller, localized group such as the small group of residents at Tarawa Terrace, MCB Camp Lejeune. Therefore, evidence of higher cancer rates in groups this small may be hidden within the rates of cancer for the entire county.

In addition, latency for most types of cancer is between 10 and 20 years. This creates two problems. First, those exposed to potential VOC carcinogens in the 1982­1985 time frame, would just now be beginning to be diagnosed with cancer. Secondly, the average stay of residents at MCB Camp Lejeune at that time was 3 years, and most of the exposed individuals who develop cancer are likely to have moved before they are diagnosed. Hence, most of the cancer cases that might have occurred among exposed individuals would not be recorded in the North Carolina cancer registry as occurring to MCB Camp Lejeune residents.

The potential effects of VOC exposure on children have been evaluated only in Woburn, Massachusetts, where a cluster of childhood leukemia cases has been investigated in several different studies. The Woburn studies suggested an association between childhood leukemia and access to VOC-contaminated drinking water (42, 43, 44). This association was quite strong in children who were exposed to the largest quantities of VOCs in utero (43). In addition, cancer rates declined to expected levels about 8 years after the contaminated wells were closed, which is a reasonable latency period for childhood cancer. The contaminant levels in the Woburn wells were TCE, 267 ppb; PCE, 21 ppb; chloroform, 12 ppb; and other VOCs. The wells were used 59% of the time, and water was blended with water from six other municipal wells, thus lowering the actual concentrations of VOCs people would be drinking at their taps. The risk of childhood leukemia associated with VOC-contaminated drinking water in Woburn was impossible to estimate precisely because the overall number of childhood leukemia cases in Woburn was small, the number of years during which Woburn water was contaminated was not known, and what VOC concentrations were present in tap water was not known. In addition, some associations between chemical exposure and disease arise by coincidence. This is why it is necessary to conduct epidemiologic studies in several different populations to establish a definitive link between exposure and disease. Nevertheless, the findings at Woburn raise concerns about potential childhood cancer risks associated with VOC exposure in utero. Therefore, we recommend that, if feasible, ATSDR conduct a study of cancer in children potentially exposed to VOCs in utero while their parents resided at Camp Lejeune.

Noncancerous Effects

Adverse Birth Outcomes
Women may experience adverse pregnancy outcomes from exposure to toxic substances even when their own health is not threatened, because fetuses are potentially more sensitive to the effects of VOCs (45, 46). Several epidemiologic studies suggested the possibility that pregnant women exposed to VOCs (at levels similar to those detected at MCB Camp Lejeune) may have an increased risk of adverse pregnancy outcomes. The outcomes include birth defects such as heart malformations, neural tube defects, oral clefts, low birthweight, and increased fetal death (45, 46-51). Some of these studies have significant limitations, including questions about whether all of the study population was exposed, how long exposure took place, and the exact concentrations of VOCs to which these mothers were exposed. Due to these limitations, more studies are needed to better evaluate the relationship between VOC exposure and adverse pregnancy outcomes.

To help address the issue about pregnancy outcomes, ATSDR began a study at Camp Lejeune in 1995. In an interim report released in 1997, ATSDR identified approximately 6000 infants whose mothers resided in VOC-exposed housing areas while pregnant (52, 53). A statistically significant decrease in mean birthweight and a statistically significant increase in the condition small for gestational age was observed in male infants born to mothers whose housing was supplied with water from Hadnot Point. Birthweight in this group was compared with birthweight of infants of women living in other officers' housing. No differences in mean birthweight or the condition small for gestational age were noted in most residents receiving water from Tarawa Terrace compared with residents of other housing areas. However, in Tarawa Terrace residents, the children of mothers who were 35 years of age or older and the children of mothers who had previously had a fetal loss were more likely to have been born small for gestational age. Infants whose mothers were very briefly exposed to VOCs from the Holcomb Boulevard system were not more likely to have lower mean birthweight or to be born small for gestational age.

Summary and Follow-up

Human exposure to TCE, PCE, and 1,2-DCE in drinking water systems at MCB Camp Lejeune has been documented over a period of 34 months, but likely occurred for a longer period of time perhaps as long as 30 years. Included in the population that used this water were approximately 6000 residents in base family housing (52, 53). This population consisted of a large proportion of young married women. Even though adverse health effects are not expected in adults, concern was raised about potential toxic effects on developing fetuses.

As discussed previously, it is difficult to draw conclusions from a single epidemiologic study, and most of the other epidemiologic studies completed to date have been so different in study design that their results cannot be adequately compared. Also, finding associations in some subgroups but not others is plausible, but was not expected. Research conducted in other groups of infants exposed to these chemicals in utero will be necessary before firm conclusions about the effects of low-level VOC exposure on birthweight can be drawn. ATSDR is currently conducting another study of TCE in drinking water and birthweight as part of its National Exposure Registry activities. The Exposure Registry study may confirm or refute some of these observations. A future report based on the Camp Lejeune birth data will examine the potential association between VOC exposure and preterm delivery and late fetal death. Birth defects will be studied only briefly because the data are too limited for an adequate evaluation.

Another potential effect of fetal exposure to VOCs is childhood cancer. Information about the potential for this effect is limited, but provocative. Therefore, ATSDR recommends a study of cancer in children who were exposed to VOCs at MCB Camp Lejeune while in utero.

Conclusions and Public Health Action Plan
for VOC Exposure (Tap Water)
Conclusion:
Before 1986, people drinking and showering with water from the Tarawa Terrace, Hadnot Point, and the Holcomb Boulevard water distribution systems on base were exposed to volatile organic compounds (VOCs). There is information documenting drinking water contamination in the Tarawa Terrace and Hadnot Point water systems from 1982 until 1985, although contamination could have been present longer. Contamination in the Holcomb Boulevard system was present only for two weeks, January 27­ February 7, 1985. At the estimated exposure levels, we do not expect cancerous or noncancerous health effects in adults. Even though ATSDR determined that cancerous health effects are unlikely in children, not enough scientific information is available to rule out the possibility of cancerous health effects from low-dose exposure to VOCs such as those at MCB Camp Lejeune. Additionally, fetuses are potentially more sensitive than children to VOCs. Previous studies have suggested associations between childhood cancer, low birthweight, late fetal death, and fetal exposure to VOCs.

ATSDR's Health Study suggests that a statistically significant decrease in mean birthweight and a statistically significant increase in the condition small for gestational age was observed in male infants born to mothers whose housing was supplied with water from Hadnot Point. A copy of the health study can be obtained at the Onslow County Library, Jacksonville, NC, or from ATSDR.
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The reason for this posting is to show you, the affected community, the shoddy, and yes, skewed work product that was produced by a Federal agency which was created to protect public health. If you find this Camp Lejeune, Public Health Assessment as outrageous as I do, write to the ATSDR Camp Lejeune web-site and tell them so. There has been resistance by the ATSDR to remove the VOC exposure portion of this document from their web-site even though it is a known fact that it is wrought with errors. I would also encourage each and everyone of you to inform your U. S. Congressional Representatives and Senators of this travesty.

The ATSDR has been in existence for nearly a quarter of a century, they have rarely (if ever) had a conclusive finding in any of their work. There have been several articles written about this agency's ineffectiveness over the years, "Inconclusive By Design" and "ATSDR, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue", just to name a few. It has become my opinion over the years that perhaps our Federal government would be better served if they did away with the ATSDR. Take the money that is apparently being wasted on the up keep of an ineffective agency and contract future Public Health Assessments and studies to university science/medical departments. I truly believe that if this were to happen, the money that our government would provide to these universities would be utilized to protect public health instead of protecting the special interests of polluters! We have been chasing our tails for far too many years, it is time for a change..........let's make this change happen!



Jerry Ensminger

[JME]

How many of you understand what the "Peer Review" process accomplishes or why it is a required necessity in the scientific/medical fields? It was determined long ago that even scientists and medical professionals are human-beings and that they too are susceptible to biases. Some of them have even been compromised by external pressures being placed on them by individuals, governments, or other special interest groups who have a vested interest in the outcome of their work. A peer review requires a scientist/health professional to provide a copy of their proposed findings along with all of the supporting documents, formulas, or any other materials which went into the conclusions in their report to a group of their peers for review/validation. This is a very important process which keeps personal biases and personal interests out of the scientific/medical fields. The peer review must be accomplished before a scientific/medical document can be published and released.

When the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) was created by Congress, there was a huge back log of already identified National Priority Listed (NPL) contamination sites on the books. Because Congress thought it was so important that this newly created agency get straight to work and perform their Congressionally mandated mission to protect public health at these sites, they gave the ATSDR the luxury of foregoing the peer review process for their work. This luxury was afforded the ATSDR by Congress for the sake of saving time to protect public health. What Congress failed to recognize at the time was the fact that they were creating a rouge agency which could write and publish anything they desired without justification! Believe me, this capability did not escape notice by the polluters at the NPL sites of which the ATSDR reports on. It is my opinion that many of them have taken full advantage of this loop-hole.

One would have thought that our Congress, knowing full well the importance of the "checks and balances" afforded through the peer review process, would have made provisions which would require the ATSDR to return to that standard practice once the NPL back log was eliminated. Congress did no such thing! The ATSDR to this day has the luxury of writing Public Health Assessments (PHA) which circumvent the peer review process. It is pretty much an established fact if the ATSDR would have been required to undergo a peer review for the Camp Lejeune PHA, we would see a much more factual document than what exists today! The ATSDR can't even produce the supporting documents it used to make up the Camp Lejeune PHA! They claim that a private contractor mistakenly destroyed these important documents during an agency move! It is not my intention to make light of such an important issue but this has all of the ear marks of the story about the little boy who told his teacher that the family dog had eaten his homework!!!

While our Congress had great intentions when they allowed the ATSDR to forego the peer review process, in reality it has greatly deminished the quality of work this agency has produced. This sub-standard work has had a severe negative impact on the lives and the health of millions of Americans, their family members and our environment. It is my hope that this new Congress will rectify this important over-sight.........Jerry Ensminger

[grneydldy45]

Just on a whim, I read throught this entire group of postings....anybody knows that anything you try to do, if it has anything to do with ANY government agency on ANY level, is full of beaurocratic red tape and BS. I have been an environmental activist for many, many years. I've attended picket lines to protect parks, water, and wildlife. I've fought quarries because of the destruction they cause in any ecosystem in which they are located. Nothing is easy when it comes to the government. You may think that an elected official is going to help...news flash....they're all politicians. Somewhere in their minds, they're all out for number one. If it will help them get reelected they'll be all over it, but this situation isn't confined to one voting district...it is nationwide. Politicians will hang they're faces out and make a good show for you but they will rarely do anything that will truly be beneficial to what you are trying to accomplish. Senator Jeff Sessions is one of MY senators...he's on all of those committees, but I don't believe, for one second, that if I were to call his office tomorrow, I'd get any response except some BS letter apologizing for my situation and "promising to look into it." Wake up folk!!! The government is not gonna help us....we're going to have to blow this thing wide open so that it becomes an issue nationwide. When the politicians start being embarrassed because their constituents want to know why something hasn't been done...the ball will start rolling. I don't know of too many americans, with the exception of politicians, who wouldn't be appalled to find out what happened at Camp Lejeune!! Do you????